Among other topics, former police minister Bheki Cele spoke on police officials, Vusimuzi 'Cat' Matlala and his legacy.
Former police minister Bheki Cele will leave it to South Africans to decide where he ranks among his contemporaries.
Open to answering all questions before him, the one on his legacy in government was the only one which Cele gave the briefest answer to — although not without his quintessential analogy.
Cele sat before parliament’s ad hoc committee on police corruption and interference on Friday and touched on multiple topics as he was interrogated by committee members.
Withdrawal of Matlala comment
During questioning on Thursday, Cele said that he knew Vusimuzi ‘Cat’ Matlala “very well”, but the former minister retracted that on Friday.
He explained that he had known Matlala only for three or four months which was not sufficient to use that term.
“It could not qualify [it as] ‘very well’. Maybe in reflection, ‘very well’ would have been an overarching kind of a term.
“’Very well’ would not stay. If I need to withdraw ‘very well’, definitely I will take ‘very well’ out,” Cele told the committee.
He was again asked questions about his association with Matlala, this time elaborating that their relationship was not personal.
“[It would be like] my association with you. For instance, knowing your family, knowing where you live, knowing how you live.
“If it is only I have met you in the form of a semi-work, maybe a meeting, maybe in a hotel, then it cannot be very well.”
Several committee members touched on the Matlala issue, with Cele stating “he has never been a friend” and “life would have been much better if I did not meet him”.
Warning for Mkhwanazi
The first two members of the South African Police Service (Saps) to appear before the committee were National Commissioner General Fannie Masemola and KwaZulu-Natal Commissioner Lieutenant General Nhlanhla Mkhwanazi.
Cele was asked if Masemola had played a positive or negative role in the handling of the political killings task team (PKTT) saga.
“For me, he became very soft, even to engage on phasing out [the PKTT]. For me, he should have said, ‘No, it can’t happen’, maybe take the opportunity to explain to the minister, eyeball to eyeball.
“Masemola is very respectful. Sometime in the circles I speak, I say ‘He would have made a good Bishop,” said Cele.
He had a warning for Mkhwanazi too, suggesting the provincial commissioner would do well to keep his feet on the ground.
“I think one problem that has happened about Mkhwanazi is the South African society that has sung Hallelujah about him.
“As a human being, you would love to float in the clouds of popularity, and out of that you begin to make mistakes,” said Cele.
The former minister called Mkhwanazi a “tough nut” and said he was planning to see him again.
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Political killings about opportunity
Committee members quizzed Cele on whether he thought the current situation within the police was the result of factional divides, with the former minister playing coy.
“Police, like all families, have people who have egos and they have their thinking, but also ambitions,” he said.
On political killings, Cele said the issue predominantly affected local government level as the motives were linked to access to opportunities.
He said he knew of three wards that were strongholds of the incumbents, where the death of the ward councillor would trigger a by-election, after which he would be replaced by someone instrumental in their predecessor’s death.
“We need to find some way that you killing me doesn’t guarantee that you are coming in,” Cele suggested.
He said unemployment was the underlying cause, as these councillors were aided in their criminal motives by future benefactors and that “we have to make sure government and business is cut”.
‘I will request to jump’
The 73-year-old Cele stated several times throughout the morning that he was “not a perfect human being” and admitted there were times when he felt he could have done better.
He said he shared this fallibility with fellow government officials and members of the police.
Pressed on how he thought of himself compared to those who had served before him as police minister, he was uncharacteristically short of an answer.
“That is the most difficult question to answer. If I was a soccer player and I am a striker, I would rate myself by scoring the goals — it would be easy.
“Chairperson, I don’t know if I can really answer this question myself as a minister.
“I will request to jump, chair, on rating myself and allow South Africans and the rest of the people to judge me on that,” Cele stated.
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